When I lived in Birmingham in a very poor and crime-ridden neighborhood, I worked two jobs and went to school part time in order to work my way out of poverty. I wanted to enjoy a few material pleasures, but I had every intention of keeping the same values and set of friends. My values have stayed the same, but my “friends” constantly gave me a hard time for trying to better myself. I kept asking myself “How can I succeed within the poor community?” Eventually I realized the answer was “You don’t succeed within the poor community. You succeed by leaving it.” I was sorry to have to say goodbye to some of the people I left behind, but it was their own fault for creating a rift just because I started earning a bigger wage.

I read her blog, so I am familiar with what you are talking about.

I feel that the situation is different on an individual basis. I didn't grow up in the hood, but I give back to my people because I want to. It has nothing to do with where or how I was raised. My desire to give back came from the attitude that was shown to me when I first started on my rise in the corporate world. I saw how threatened they were by us when we have the knowledge and ability to do our job...how we are able to accomplish what we desire without affirmative action.

In the center where I volunteer, most of the workers are from the streets. They were hired to extend their knowledge and experiences and deflect the kids from doing what they have done in the past.

I don't think there is a single reason or attitude that causes people to give back. I think different people have different reasons.

It is completely ridiculous to say someone is not keeping it real because they leave hood. I remember when Mobb Deep was doing an interview outside of the project buildings where they lived talking about "they were the streets" and Jay-Z wasn't. Now that they signed with 50 and have a little money I bet their perspective has changed. Good stuff.

Good read.......IMO though BLacks aint tryna impress the WHITES we tryna impress/outdo each other(keeping up with the JOne's mentality) We dont see them white ppl rolling up in Escalades in their mothers name when they know they cant afford it....

What it boils down to no matter where you live, what race you ar...LIFE IS WHAT YOU MAKE IT.........YOu are responsbile for the path that you chose. I didnt have a father in my life, but yet I dont have kids, I have my shit together, never had a record. THat was my choice. I wanted so much more for myself.

I totally agree...when we get rich, we're gone. Make more money you want a better life style.
People who sell drugs or get involved in illegal activity do that b/c they choose too. They could get a job, start a trade, but they assume it's too hard. They rather deal w/ the dangers and hassle of that life. If that's what they choose then that's fine but don't cry and whine about things weren't giving to you or there weren't opportunities for you to make something of yourself. They definitely are ways to get out of your situation, hell ask for help, but do they no, those people just choose other wise

I'm going to check out the other blog but I have to say I agree with what you're saying. Once you make it big are you supposed to stay in the projects to prove that you're down? That's crazy. You can give back while living in the penthouse.

I believe that while I'm climbing the ladder of success I should reach my hand down and bring someone up with me. But, I will not stand still and wait for them to catch up to me ... I gots to keep it moving.

I think there is a danger in the 'pull yourself up by your boot straps' mentality without looking at systemic issues. Are black people looking for a hand out or is the system rigged from jump for them to fail?

thanks for the comments..

mizjj -how is the system rigged? plz explain

I haven't read Insanely's posts...but I will. However, I do want to comment your post. I do agree with much of what you have said...not having to live in the ghetto to understand the ghetto, not having to stay in the hood once you have the ability to do better for yourself...and I even agree that we shouldn't expect hand outs, however you have to be careful with that. In many ways, we (Black people) are playing catch up from many years of being held back, down and behind. Now I'm not saying that we should get something for nothing, but until we, as a people, get together to own sh*t, run sh*t and call our own shots - we may need a little extra spotlight so that those who think they can continue to overlook, won't be able to. Consider all of the well deserving, straight shooting brothers and sisters that are still beind denied just because of the color of their skin. Ya feel me?

In terms of giving back, whether it's money or time is irrelevant. They both are just as important as the other. But please don't fall into the trap of thinking that everyone is undeserving of financial assistance, because that certainly is not true. There are some hard working, honest living people out there that can't always make ends meet, put food on the table, keep the electricity on, afford Christmas gifts for their children...I can go on and on. But if you would rather donate your time, I can't really argue with that.

You both seem to have valid arguements/points. I am impressed, and excited, about your passion as it shows that both of you care and are willing to take a stand for the plight of your people.

Well I just read an article (available to read at www.salon.com just type in Kozol) about a book by Jonathan Kozol "The Shame of the Nation". He talks about how underfunded inner city schools are. He tells the story of how California students need to take a technical requirement to graduate. Well, at the Beverly Hills school you can take residential architecture or computer graphics, but in south central L.A school they only offer sewing and hairdressing. How are you suppose to get into university with those courses? The students can't and are frustrated. They know the system is rigged against them. The situation was the same at some of the 60 schools this man visited in 12 states. You say get an education, but what if the education you are getting is underfunded and doesn't give you the same opportunities? I think you should still try, but I think it's a myth to say black youth just aren't trying. Some definitely are not trying, but some are. I, also just finished the Michael Eric Dyson book about Bill Cosby. That book has its problems, but the fact is that the majority of black students are graduating from high school, but they are not employed in the same numbers as their white counterparts. And it happens all the way up the chain. Even with a B.A. or Masters black people are still underemployed (meaning working in a position below their experience/education) or unemployed. So I think there are systemic issues as well at work. I mean of course you should still go to school and stay out of trouble, but that doesn't guarantee you success when you still can't get hired, or are the first fired.

The same thing with overpolicing of black men. Of course they shouldn't be out there doing stupid shit like selling drugs, stealing from people, or killing people, but at the same time systemic issues come into play as well such over policing, an unequal justice system, drug laws that target black people inadequate legal counsel, etc, etc. Why isn't crystal meth targeted the same way that crack is targeted? Crystal meth is becoming an epidemic in the states. Mostly white people are making and doing crystal meth. Some things are systemic I think.

i think that while you make valid points, alot of what you say is exactly what other folk who didn't grow up in the hood would say, i.e. blacks using their condition as a reason to commit crime when all they gotta do is go out and get a job, etc. and blacks are looking for a handout.

alot of what goes on in the hood is so much more complex than "hey, just look at your options and get a job." we're talking about many folk who have low self-esteem, low sense of self-worth, and they really believe their life options are limited, primarily because there is nobody around giving them the example that there is another way to live. this is directly tied to the idea of these kinds of communities not having folks from all classes and walks of life living within it. if every successful person bounces from 'da hood after they 'make it', where does that leave the folk still there? is the answer for everyone still in the ghetto to 'get rich and bounce' or is it to empower the community from within so that those living there take pride in their surroundings and themselves and recognize the need to make positive moves in their community?

also, with the way america is set up, i.e. based on capitalism where a person's value is determined by the kind of gig he or she has and his or her material and financial gain, it's easy to see why many black folk in those areas find no value within themselves and therefore, see their situations as hopeless. ain't nobody giving props to the cat making 5.50 an hour for picking up trash out of the parking lots. the idea of instant wealth ain't just a black thing, that's something found everywhere, only in other communities there is a balance of folk in the community so that people don't just see the ones making the money through illegal means (or means where they don't work for it), they see doctors, lawyers, computer programmers, teachers, police officers...basically all of the people who directly benefit financially from the continued depression of underserved areas.

so if a person recognizes this, it makes sense that he or she would be resentful of folk who don't reside in the area because they're thinking "i'm good enough for you to take my money but i'm not good enough to be your neighbor."

i think there needs to be a focus on what black folk are doing positively and a shift away from what black folk ain't doing, including an elimination of the term "black folks always"...cuz ultimately, we represent in all financial classes, educational background, political affiliations, etc. there is no collective mindset or behavior pattern when it comes to us and therefore, it is detrimental to make assumptions about us as a whole, good or bad.

oh.. thanks for the explaination mizz jj.. i just didnt know what you meant.. i see ur point.. i dont know how other school systems are.. but know in baltimore city u can pick which school u go to.. it doesnt have to be in ur immediate living zone.. but also.. i think a lot of the poor school conditions has to do w/ parents not voicing their opinions/concerns.. if parents dont care about their kids education, why should the school system? feel me? but honestly, just cause the school isnt up to par doesnt mean that they should still act a fool..

this is universal for everyone, if you don't vote and take place in the political process you have no business complaining about anything, on any side.

Not directed towards you TTD, just in general. I generally have a lack of respect for those who don't take advantage of a right, that so many places don't have.

Regardless of everything else at bare minimum you should vote and that WILL count towards getting the type of people you want elected.

And it's not just voting in presidental elections, it's voting in every single election, every single year.

ttd, many parents don't voice concerns because they assume that's how it's supposed to be because that's how it's always been. they don't feel as though they have much power considering their living conditions and the fact that despite their best efforts, they still have only the bare essentials when it comes to making a living in the world. it all comes down to a lack of empowerment. if one does not feel as though he or she has the power to evoke change, he or she will not attempt it.

which is why it's even more important for those of us who are empowered to step up, recognize the injustice, and make sure our voices are heard either via writing our congressmen or local politicians and/or volunteering in the neighborhoods that are currently underserved and letting folk know that we are willing to invest both emotionally and financially in the re-establishment of their community's empowerment.

First and foremost, discussions about a divide between “The Hood” and those of us who grew up in suburban neighborhood never cease to amaze me.

I read your posting, and read the postings you suggested, and they contain way too much to comment upon in your comment box. But needless to say, I agreed with very little of it. But, what I shared in common with the posts you cited was the agitation and irritation she feels. I know that most Black folks feel that same frustration, though we seem to be manifesting it in different ways. Ultimately, the vast majority of us want the same thing.

Speaking from personal experience, those of us in “The Hood” often have this warped fantasy that people who grew up in the suburbs haven’t seen “real” life. To me this is just plain laughable. Very few Black families are more than one generation from poverty, if that. For instance, my mother grew up in the rural South in a four-room shack, much poorer than most people I have EVER met in “The Hood.” My father’s family, who lived two towns over, had little more than that. To this day, we still support deadbeats in the family who believe they are owed something because my parents worked their behinds off to scratch out a life for themselves in a small corner of this world. There are some deadbeats that don’t want “help” they want to be GIVEN something.

In terms of Black people from the suburbs, many people’s family members still live in “The Hood” or the rural South, or both. To believe that Black folks who grew up in the suburbs have no clue of what’s “really” going on is retarded. I suppose some people believe that Black folks from the suburbs have no extended families. In my family, our kindness was/is often met with everyone’s favorite inferiority-complex slogan: “You think you better than me??” Man, how are you going to act like that when I’m helping YOU?

We as a community often speak of this “self-hate” phenomenon, but what about those of us who are children of people who have worked hard? Have we lost our right to our “Blackness” because we speak, read and write clearly? Black people who have to suffer through all-White classes and biased teachers, so that we can get through difficult Universities, are rewarded with: “Oh… so you think you better than me cause you got ‘lucky’ with your little education??” I won’t even get into a discussion on what people think “luck” is.

In the workplace, and in social settings, the Black professional must deal with White racism and Black classism, which states that the only authentic life is in “The Hood.” I suppose the millions (we are a people of 40 million, you know, and not all of us are in prison or bangin’), of us who didn’t grow up in public housing must have been living in a fantasy-world, the same fantasy-world our parents suffered to work their way into. The same world many who mock us are trying to get into. The same fantasy-world we work against everyday to make a better life for ourselves and our families.

The fact that when we criticize ourselves, which is a good thing, some folks jump up and feel that they must “defend” the honor of the Black people in “The Hood” from these squares who have a bunch of useless degrees, is horrible.

We have all this talk about “reaching out,” but do people from “The Hood” reach out to those people who don’t live in The Hood to make them feel like brothers and sisters? The answer is unfortunately, no. On the other hand, it’s much less of a two-way street than we as a community are willing to admit.

There are plenty of Black people dying to help, but after years of being ostracized by the same people they are trying to help, they strike out on their own and suffer quietly in a hostile world, alone, with only their immediately family as support. We lose more people that way than we know.

Another Perspective... thanks for ur opinion.. very well put! come back and if you have a blog.. leave the link...

girl.. i cant come to your blog during the week b/c of the top of ur page.. i'll be by tomorrow when im at my part-time job!

u and GP pages be too explicit sometimes for my full-time gig...

I put my opinion on your hubbies blog. But sis, one of the best ways to analyze an argument is to apply a premise across time.

Let's look at one of your fundamental arguments and try it out for size:

"Also, she said that she would give back to her community if she made. Me? Hell no! Why? Because I feel that people don’t try to do shit for themselves. - TTD"

Now, imagine if everyone across time, applied this same philosphy.

What if Harriet Tubman said, "I got out, those nigga's need to make their own way". How about if Frederick Douglas did the same, "I taught myself to read and speak eloquent and escape, screw those slaves who don't want to teach themselves to read." How about Denmark Vessey, even though another slave snitched on him. He planned the largest slave revolt recorded in history. What if people like him would have said, hey, I can get out by myself, why plan to free others of my people? Marcus Garvey, Booker T Washington, WEB Dubois, Benjamin Bannaker, Thurgood Marshall, Malcolm X, Martin Luther King Jr. Huey Newton, etc.

What if all those individuals applied that philosophy that you are arguing, would we as a people be today?

See that mentality is in reality no different than what the hustler on the corner in the hood is saying.

He is saying, if I can get mine, what does it matter about other folks, they aren't trying to get out of their position.

I know this is a long post, but I deal with this everyday.

The biggest difference between pre-civil rights blacks, and post civil rights blacks, is that we have embraced individualism & materialism, which says if we get ours, that is all that matters. Before civil rights, it was, if we get ours, we are going to make sure our people get some to, so we can all make it together.

I feel where you are coming from sis, but we will always have a hood, we will always have a ghetto, we will never see a change in the condition of our inner cities, if folks hold to the philosophy that you have. Change is always made through sacrifice and effort of those who could make it alone but sacrifice what they COULD do for what they SHOULD do.

Peace.

PS, you are doing a good thing by being a big sister, and in no way am I questioning you blackness.

I am simply pointing out the end result of your argument if we apply it across the board.

Being a Christian, I just think about the sacrifice of Christ who had everything, but was willing to give it all up for people who at the time didn't give a shit about him.

dell.. u didnt quote me in entirety... this is what i said:

"Also, she said that she would give back to her community if she made. Me? Hell no! Why? Because I feel that people don’t try to do shit for themselves. I don’t mind volunteering and mentoring people to do the right decisions, but I worked hard to get where I am, so I’m not going to give my hard earned money back to people who won’t appreciate it. To people who think I OWE them something. To people who haven’t even tried to do for self."

i dont mind giving back my TIME, but not my MONEY. i think thats where me and insanely differ the most...

but thanks for your comments.. they're appreciated.. please come back

umm excuse me *ahem*

i have a question for U:


do u care??

do i care about what?

TTD I Agree Insane has a very intuitive and informative blog that excites and gets the blood flowing! SIster girl is deep on so many posts...but alot of what she has to say is the serious truth...I love the convo thats brewing right now!